On November 8, 2002 Mike sat down with me in the lounge between songs during the rehearsals for ProgWest. At this performance Mike was one of a performing group of 15 that would reproduce Kevin Gilbert?s rock opera ?The Shaming of the True?. Here?s what he had to say.

JH: I know you?ve played a lot of covers, and I know you?ve played WITH Kevin before, but have you ever played Kevin?s music before?

MK: Only when Bryan (Bellar) and I did Shadowself. We did it one time at a gig. We did a duet version of it.

JH: Was it a walk-on type thing?

MK: NO. It was at the end of one of our gigs, right after Kevin died. We did our regular Beer For Dolphins set and then for an encore Bryan and I just came out and played Shadowself acoustically. I?m pretty sure that?s the only one of Kevin?s songs that I?ve played before.

JH: You?ve done so many other covers, and one of the things about your covers is that they?re always really exact?

MK: I don?t know, I think I take exception to that. (laughs)

JH: Maybe ?exact? is not the right word. When I think of Siberian Khatru for instance, one I?m very familiar with, every note is there. Whether or not it?s the exact same intonation or not?

MK: Well, Kevin was the producer of that session, and his vision for that song was he wanted it to sound like? Obviously, a lot of people heard that and go ?What?s the point?? The guiding vision of that was we all loved the album Close To The Edge but we thought that the engineering on it was really weird. So Kevin thought ?What if we really do Siberian Khatru almost as if we were able to clean all the audio weirdness of the original and just make it sound great?? So he applied all of his amazing engineering skills to making it sound incredible. But he himself thought ?What?s the point? Why exactly did we do it?? It needed to go somewhere unexpected in the middle and that?s when he got the idea for the Bruford thing.

JH: So HE?S the real exacting one?

MK: Well there have been times where I?ve wanted to replicate things precisely, but that?s really not what I?m about musically.

JH: The Gentle Giant one. You start off with something from another song, and then you go into No God?s a Man, great rendition of that by the way.

MK: Thank you. Well you do have to start from a point of knowing it very well. You have to be ABLE to play it exactly the way it is on the original version before you explore and do other stuff with it. Your original premise is right to the extent that when I do someone else?s songs I want to understand it very well.

JH: You want to know every note that?s there, and then if you deviate, you do it purposefully?

MK: Yeah, by choice. And sometimes there are deviations that are a result of not enough preparation time or whatever. For instance the Jimi Hendrix song from the Band of Gypsies ?The Power of Soul?, we?ve played that song many times and I still don?t know what the words are. (both laugh)

JH: HE probably didn?t know what they were either!

MK: Well you know what? I think that?s part of the problem. I?ve read the words to the song so many times, but it just seems so off the cuff, just so incredibly reflexive. Like it wasn?t something that he spent a lot of time worrying about, so I?ve had a hard time spending a lot of time worrying about it too. (laughs) But in the case of something like Siberian Khatru with the Steve Howe parts in there, that was Kevin?s idea that he wanted it to be really, really close, and because I wanted to make him happy, I did it that way.

JH: We?ve talked about Yes, we?ve talked about Gentle Giant, some great talent from the past. Now you?re playing Kevin?s music, so how does he stack up? Musically, was it what you expected?

MK: The most fun thing about learning the parts and learning the songs has been how often the parts that he writes feel really incredibly second nature to me. A lot of times when I?m learning a song my hands will go places while I?m in the learning process that feel comfortable to me, and they?re often not right, because everybody writes music to suit their own tastes and their own abilities and their own history. Everybody, after a few years on instrument, has different things that they do. But when I was figuring out Kevin?s songs, I would hear it, and then the first thing that I would try always be right. It always just felt like there was a real shared, in a nuts and bolts way? We both grew up listening to the same stuff, and our sensibilities are really similar in a lot of ways. And that was really brought home to me when I listened to stuff and I realized just how much we did share, and it was really fun. I had a smile on my face a lot as I was learning the stuff.

JH: What would you say was the most fun to play, and then what would you say was the most complex?

MK: I haven?t really got it divided down into separate pieces so much.

JH: Are the any moments that stick with you, where you feel a vibe? I mean last night there were 2 or 3 times where I got full on goose bumps.

MK: Oh man, well let?s see. There were a couple of versions of ?Smash? that we played yesterday that sounded incredible, with the triple guitarists.

JH: And that ending, where it goes into the calliope-sounding thing. When it hits that it just jells!

MK: It?s HUGE, yeah. There?s a lot of good songs. A lot of great melodies and a lot of great grooves that are just fun to play. City of the Sun is always fun to play. I love the guitar part on that song.

JH: How about your interpretation of Ghetto of Beautiful Things? That seems like a tough thing to do.

MK: When Nick told me that he wanted me to do it, I said yes because I knew that one way or another I would find a way to do it that felt good to me. But the first couple of times I listened to it I was trying to understand the character and it didn?t automatically resonate like something that I was gonna be able to relate to. And then over the course of like the day before the first rehearsal last week was the first time I really practiced it. I was driving around listening to an instrumental version of the track in the car, you know, and so I was practicing that part while I was driving and trying not to call too much attention to myself on the freeway (both laugh). Once I started to memorize the words and I started to feel a little bit of what that character in that situation would feel, like any acting job, it started to make sense. And then yesterday when I got up in front of Dave (Levita ? Guitar: Kaviar), Paul (Ill ? Bass: Kaviar) and Chris (G ? Drums), and they started rocking the track pretty hard, I realized that I didn?t want to do it that broad. I?m not doing a lot of arm waving, and I don?t expect that I?m gonna be doing the thing of screaming into the crowd and stuff. It still feels private in some way, like the character was inside his own head, but he?s still very loud about it. Obviously I?m screaming, but I still feel kind of like awkward.

JH: When you did that last night I have to say honestly that that was one of the most powerful moments I?ve ever experienced in music. Something about the interpretation, the way you delivered it, the lines, the heavy groove and the raw edge with Paul and David, it was very, very intense.

MK: At some point during the rehearsal yesterday I started to really feel comfortable. I?m definitely looking forward to it.

JH: Let?s turn to your stuff. New Keneally. I know you?re working on an album. I?ve heard stories you?re performing new material at the last couple of shows.

MK: Yeah. There?s actually about 8 new songs that we?ve played live at different times. Of that bunch there?s a core of about 6 that I think are going to make up about half of the new record.

JH: Where?s my calculator? (both laugh) So they are going to be longer songs then?

MK: Yeah. There?s not gonna be as many tiny songs as in the past. Or there might be. I really enjoyed with Wooden Smoke making a shorter album and being able to have more control over the art, and the overall statement of the album. I?m still into that for the next record. I want it to be really a strong concentrated rock album with the quartet, the way we sound now.

JH: So it?s about half way written? Can you project out to when something might actually be ready for release?

MK: Yeah. Well we?ve already done a little bit of recording for it, but we?re gonna do a big chunk of recording for it in December. And then depending on how much writing I get done between now and then. I don?t know how much of the album we?re actually gonna get down, but generally what happens is we record a lot of the band in say 3 days of studio time, and then I can go back and do overdubs. I?m hoping that the thing will be out in spring of next year.

JH: I?m really looking forward to it.

MK: Me too!

JH: OK, the last thing. When I first met you, you were working on Nick?s solo album and I told you that I hadn?t heard ANY of your stuff. I had no idea who you were, or what you played. Since then I have fallen in love with your music.

MK: Oh, thank you!

JH: Now I?ve been to your shows, which is an incredible live experience, and there are a lot of people from the Matinee who are right there with me, who have really grown to love your music.

MK: Man that?s marvelous.

JH: One of the things that strikes me as I?ve gone back and discovered all the different discs, Sluggo, Boil That Dust Spec, Dancing? There?s such an incredible diversity there. Sometimes you?re the ripping guitar guy, sometimes you?re the pixie out in space guy (both laugh), where does all that come from? How do explain such a diverse approach to music?

MK: I think it?s the fact that I really loved a lot of different things when I was growing up. Listening to music, and going to movies, and watching TV. There?s a lot of that I enjoyed that made me FEEL fantastic. I just loved the feeling that I got from all that stuff. It was all kinds of different things. I could go to a punk concert that would just be so extreme and I would be totally exhilarated by it. And then I could turn around and go to like a small chamber ensemble that would get me from a different way. And then I?d go to see Monty Python and the Holy Grail and THAT would kill me. Then I?d go to see 2001 A Space Odyssey and that would kill me.

JH: So ANYTHING that entertained you?

MK: Yeah, but it was all different, you know? And so early on I developed a taste for appreciating a lot of different kinds of stuff.

JH: I think a lot of people APPRECIATE stuff, but they wouldn?t think to incorporate it into their music.

MK: Yeah, well I guess, I don?t know. I?ve never been a mainstream guy, period. I don?t think I?ve ever really done anything in any kind of a pattern.

JH: It seems like you?ll slip into the main stream a little bit in one song, but then you?re right out.

MK: Yeah, because the first music I loved was The Beatles. So there?s always gonna be a heavy pop influence in there. Once I finish an album, and I?ve done what I hoped to, and up until this point I?ve managed to do that, at the end of each album I?ve been able to sit back and say ?I?ve accomplished what I set out to accomplish?. So once that?s done and it?s time to do the next album, I?m not interested in refining what I did on the last album. I think of albums as incredible opportunities to just create these separate works that really connect with people. So I want each album to have a chance of really connecting. And I think that each album has more of a real stand-alone personality when you continue evolving. Basically it?s all a question of personal taste. It?s whatever the heck I feel like doing at any given moment. And I happen to like doing a lot of different stuff, and hearing a lot of different stuff. I?m making the music because I?m a FAN of music. So in every case I?m trying to make something that I want to listen to.

JH: Well that?s great. It has kept it very interesting. I want to thank you for spending the time with me today. I know you?re busy getting ready for the show. I really appreciate it.

MK: No problem!